T
here were just two generations at Wiston. Peter de Brewes bought the manor along with four other Sussex manors in 1357. His son John inherited the estate but died without issue in 1426. His heir was his sister Beatrix, married to Hugh Shirley, and so the house and manor became the home of the Shirleys.Peter was knighted after the battle of Crécy, and became a chamber knight to Edward III. He served the king for at least 20 years, dying soon after Edward in 1378. Peter held some estates in Buckinghamshire and he was granted fraternity at Missenden Abbey in April 1378, so he probably died there and was buried nearby.
His son John, however, seems to have made his base at Wiston in Sussex. When he died in 1426 he was commemorated by a magnificent brass in the church adjacent to Wiston House.
John is depicted here in an image derived from that brass.
Two Braose marriages
are also commemorated in the windows of this church.But just where did Peter and John fit into the Braose family? Who was Peter's father? You can read in some respected genealogical works that he was a son of Peter de Braose of Tetbury, making him a nephew of William de Braose, Lord of Bramber and Gower, who died in 1326. But there is no evidence to support this position.
Paul Mackenzie in Australia
and I, in England, have been sharing our detailed research on this question for many years now but we have as yet been unable to come to any firm conclusions. Does anyone out there think they can help?
6 comments:
Hi Doug
I see you've called the second file 'anneys'. Any chance it could read 'cammys' and have anything to do with the de Camoys connection? The other window is easier to read and seems to say [quo]ndam johne de br[ewes]- applying that formula to the second window seems to leave a spare c in front of the a. Just a thought . . .
John
Hello John
Not Camoys. The inscription reads
"pp (Priez pour) dame anneys de br[ewes]"
Your spare c is the e on dame.
As you almost read, the other one is "pp dame johne de br."
If the arms are matched correctly to the inscriptions (there is some doubt about this from the glass restorers) we are looking for a Joan Howard and an Anneys Clifford married to Brewes husbands.
Doug
Wiston question
Just got hold of Peter de Braose's IPM dating from 7 March 5 Edw. II.
Heir his son Thomas, aged 10 at the Nativity of the Blessed Mary last.
If Peter II was his son and died in 1378 he would be have been an old man.
Beatrix his daughter as far as I know was c.60 when she inherited from her brother John. that means
she was born c. 1366. At that date
Peter II must have been 56 or rather a few years older.
That is why I believe he is not a son of Peter I and was born after
1311.
Ana Luppertz
her brother
Thanks for your thoughts Ana. I totally agree. Peter de Braose of Tetbury is not on my list of "likely candidates" for the father of Peter de Brewes of Wiston. It's a shame that so many people have been misled by poorly thought through speculation presented as fact in some published sources.
According to The Battle Abbey Roll, quoting Townsend's Additions to Dugdale's Baronage, Beatrix was "daughter of Peter, son of John, son of the said Eleanor (de Bavent, wife of William de Braose).
Just looking at Stemmata Shirleiana; by Shirley, Evelyn Philip, 1812-1882 published 1873
https://archive.org/details/cu31924029787250/page/n273
And notices something strange. He refers to the windows as
"
1. Braose, impaling, Checky or and sable (or azure) a fess gules * with the words " p.p. Dame Agnes de Str."
2. Braose, impaling Howard, "p.p. Dame Johan de Br."
.....
* Clifford ?
"
My comments.
1. Who is this Agnes de Str? It clearly does not say "de Br."
2. Looking at the window again and you can clearly see the colour of the surname is different from the colour of christian name. You get the impression the surname has been changed sometime afterwards to "de br."
3. I also wonder about the colour of the blue square directly below.
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