Another early Braose discovered. (or not!)

William (II) de Braose had a son Philip which I believe has not been noted before.

I discovered this when examining a charter recently in Beatrice Lees’ book, Records of the Templars in England in the twelfth century. It is an agreement between the Templars and the monks of Sele Priory concerning the tithes of William de Braose. It is dated 1181 in the charter itself. The witness list contains Philip, the brother of William and also William’s son Philip.

However, 1181 is a problematic date since it is uncertain whether the William in question is William(II) or William (III). William(II) died just around this time.

Now William (II) had a brother Philip but no recorded son, while William (III) had a son Philip but no recorded brother. So the neat answer is that a son Philip for William (II) would also be a brother for William (III). So, without knowing which William is concerned in the charter, this is evidence for the existence of this son! ome that

Addition: It has been pointed out to me that this son of William (II) is also recorded in an 1140 confirmation charter in the "liber alba" of St. Florent Abbey, so has been  known for some time.

Update on Eleanor de Braose, daughter of Eva Marshall

 A thread on soc.genealogy.medieval has indicated that Eleanor was alive on 2nd June 1252 but dead by 25th June the same year. It's not entirely conclusive but it is the best estimate of her death date that can be made I think.

The father of Peter Brewes of Wiston

Paul Mackenzie is a keen researcher of the Brewes family. He has provided his observations concerning the possible father of Peter de Brewes of Wiston - one of the long-time questions for Brewes researchers.

Peter de Brewes of Wiston - Redux

It appears that there are only six possible candidates for the father of Peter de Brewes of Wiston.  All the evidence suggests he was a younger son, in that he did not inherit any lands as an elder would have done, but rather he acquired them by way of marriage or purchase.  However there does not appear to be any primary evidence concerning his father.

(I) Peter de Brewes of Tetbury b1272 d1312

The only strong evidence is circumstantial in that, in the grant of Wiston to Peter de Brewes there is a remainder to Peter de Brewes, son of Thomas.  This is assumed to be Thomas de Brewes son of said Peter de Brewes of Tetbury.  This candidate is favoured by some genealogists as being the father of Peter de Brewes of Wiston.  However, there are two major problems.   Firstly, Peter of Tetbury died in 1312 and this would mean Peter of Wiston was born before that date, which seems too early. Secondly, there is a letters patent made by the king in 1500 concerning a one Thomas Cokesey. A consequence of which is that according to law, Peter de Brewes of Wiston was not the son of Peter de Brewes of Tetbury. Substantial evidence would be required to overcome this "legal fact".

(II) Giles de Brewes of Buckingham d1305

The only circumstantial evidence is that both held lands in Buckinghamshire.  This would mean Peter was born before 1305 which seems unlikely

(III) Sir Giles de Brewes of Norfolk b1272 d1310

This would mean Peter would had been born before 1310, and again seems unlikely

(IV) William de Brewes Junior b1280-86 liv 1323

William has been the traditional candidate for Peter’s father, though he has fallen out of favour in recent years.  It is believed he entered the clergy.  There is no circumstantial evidence at all.

(V) Sir Richard de Breuse of Stradbroke Suffolk b1276  d c1320

It is possible Peter may have been a younger son of Sir Richard. In the 1350s a Peter de Breuse knight had associations in the same area of Suffolk. A Sir Peter was acting as a trustee on behalf of the abbot and convent of Bury in 1350 and 1353. Again this Sir Peter was acting in 1358 as a trustee for lands in Fornham St. Martin, Fornham St. Genevieive and Great Barton, Suffolk. In 1353 Peter de Brewoes a knight of Suffolk acknowledged that he owed William Hampstead two hundred and eighty pounds. We can identify who is this Peter de Brewoes from the transaction itself. A Peter de Brewes purchased the manor of Chesham Bois in Buckinghamshire from William de Hampstead who had acquired it in 1350 from Sir John de Moleyns [See VCH Bucks]. Presumably, this debt owed by Peter de Brewoes to William de Hampstead was for the part or full payment due to the purchase of Chesham Bois Manor. It is well known that this Peter de Brewes of Chesham Bois, subsequently purchased the manor of Wiston of Sussex.

(VI) An unknown member of the de Brewes family.

Paul Mackenzie

The Beauchamp - Braose marriage

Another piece of evidence has come to light. It is a description of a document held in the archives of Magdalen College, Oxford.  

It is known from other sources that a member of the Beauchamp family was married to Bertha, daughter of William de Braose who died in 1211. This document seemed to imply that her husband was Walter de Beauchamp.

It prompted a lot of discussion on the soc.genealogy.medieval newsgroup in June 2017 but the conclusion was drawn that the wording was not clear enough to rule out the previously held view that Bertha was Walter's mother, rather than his wife.

New Website Address

The Braose website has moved! Virgin have discontinued my free site so I had to find a new home for it. The new homepage is here. The site has moved as a whole so all the internal links are the same.

If you have a site with any links to the Braose site you just need to change the

http://freespace.virgin.net/doug.thompson/    part of any page URL

to  http://douglyn.co.uk/

Thanks for your visit!